Wednesday, December 19, 2007

How much is that doggie in the window

I know this opinion isn't very popular, but...

I think the Michael Vick dogfighting thing is a bit overblown. I don't think you should get 2 yrs in jail for killing a few dogs.

I know animal cruelty is a huge issue for a lot of people. And I don't believe in deliberate wanton cruelty either. I just don't place it near as high on the priority scale as most people.

I envision the following conversation:

Angry Animal Person: I think it's absolutely horrible what those men did to those dogs. Two years isn't enough!

Bryan: Well, with children being abused and going hungry and poor people in need of medical care and homeless people needing psychiatric treatment, and disabled vets not getting limbs and about a million other things, I think the fact that they spent thousands of dollars pursing and executing this case is absurd and disgusting. Also dogfighting is crazy scary cool. Whaddaya think about that?


At Wed Dec 19, 07:35:00 PM PST, Blogger jay are said...

I've had a hard time working up much of a sweat about it too in light of the other atrocities you mentioned in your imaginary conversation. But "crazy scary cool"??? Not even. Yuck. Maybe it's a guy thing.

At Wed Dec 19, 09:19:00 PM PST, Blogger Left Coast Sister said...

I'm with you until the "crazy scary cool" part. I guess I just think that people who are big and powerful (physically and otherwise) are idiots if they prey on people or animals that aren't.

At Thu Dec 20, 09:24:00 AM PST, Blogger Erik said...

Maybe Michael Vick really liked "White Fang" when he was a kid, and was just trying to honor his memory. White Fang was quite ferocious in the ring, if you will recall. QUITE ferocious, if I may say.

At Thu Dec 20, 09:36:00 AM PST, Blogger anya said...

I recall saying much the same thing to Alexander the other day. Like: yes it is very bad what he did. But: I don't think it warrants that much of a loss of freedom for that long a time. I think sometimes people think about jail (for other people) somewhat lightly, but I had some professors who made us think about it a lot and what it means -- basically the loss of EVERYTHING -- house, possessions, family, friends, credit, right to go to the bathroom, etc., etc., etd. We should be pretty sure we have the right person and pretty sure that what he did was bad enough that we should actually lock him up in a cage. Like, I think PETA might come and assassinate us all now, and it WAS very bad, but they were dogs. They weren't people or something.

P.S. you had me on the crazy and scary but not the cool. Um were you just kidding about it being cool?

At Thu Dec 20, 04:48:00 PM PST, Blogger blogball said...

I would agree. By the way why wasn’t this post called “How much is that doggy you just hurled through the window? “Hey That’s not funny Blogball” OK , OK

Any way I think a little PERSPECTIVE is in order here. So many people have this over the top reaction when animals are harmed or killed. I consider myself an animal lover so it breaks my heart too when I hear of animal cruelty. But there is a big difference to me when I see a dead animal in the street VS’s a dead person.

Obviously what Vick did was cruel and wrong but I think if Vick was driving drunk and ran over and killed a couple of people there would be less outcry. He would have just pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter and would be on probation for a year or two and would probably still be playing football.

At Thu Dec 20, 07:15:00 PM PST, Blogger si said...

like others, i was almost-right-there-with-you until the "crazy, scary, cool"...

i have to admit, i have an issue about cruelty to animals, tho i'm not in PETA-league. when there's a news-blurb about animals being intentionally hurt (and they usually SHOW them!), i have to change the channel -- it hurts me to see it. it might be the "trust and unconditional love" treacle that i've gotten sucked into. i guess i'd have the same reaction to kids being hurt too, but they usually don't show the "carnage."*

*since i usually have to hide my eyes at most things even slightly distrubing, maybe i'm just a wuss or something...

At Fri Dec 21, 05:58:00 PM PST, Blogger unca said...

I doubt very much if he would have received a two years sentence if he had been a low-profile guy.

At Fri Dec 28, 06:32:00 PM PST, Blogger amigo said...

Anyone who would manipulate, torture, and kill helpless animals for money or pleasure is perverted. He would likely have, or develop the same disregard towards human life. Vick got off too easy!!!

At Sun Dec 30, 06:01:00 PM PST, Blogger Lisa said...

To unca - and that would be sad. Anyone who tortures animals should get the same sentence.

I agree that torture is torture. Many serial killers start with torturing and killing small animals. There's nothing cool about it.

At Mon Dec 31, 09:06:00 AM PST, Blogger bryan torre said...

Amigo & Lisa,
I must have missed the part where the dogs were tortured. I thought they were just trying to kill a few of them.
Unless we're saying that the fighting itself is torture, in which case I disagree; dogs fight -- it's one of the things they do.
And I know trainers often treat the dogs in a way that makes them more vicious, but afaic that's a far cry from torture.
As to the connection between animal torture and mass murder, I think it's a stretch to apply that here.
First of all, you'd have to establish that a person tortured the dogs just for the sake of torturing them, and further that in *this particular case* the torture is a sign of the kind of mental problems that lead people to more dangerous social pathologies. Not all animals are squirrels; I know a number of people who did hurtful things to animals when they were young and are loving, well-adjusted people today.
It sounds to me like Amigo wants to punish Vick more because Vick *might* be like some *other* people who did what he did and then did worse.
Finally, it feels like you're trying to put dogfighting in the same category as pulling the legs off kittens. It has a few similarities, but it's not the same, no matter how it feels to you, or how many descriptive words you find in common between the two. Sometimes a difference in degree equals a difference in kind.


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